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+ Wed, 30 Sep 2020 03:12:19 -0700 (PDT)
+Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 20:12:15 +1000
+From: "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com>
+To: "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>
+Cc: Jakub Wilk <jwilk@jwilk.net>, linux-man@vger.kernel.org
+Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/2] system_data_types.7: srcfix
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+References: <20200925080330.184303-1-colomar.6.4.3@gmail.com>
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+
+Hi Jakub and Michael,
+
+At 2020-09-29T14:13:26+0200, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote:
+> On 9/28/20 3:29 PM, Jakub Wilk wrote:
+> > Hi Branden!
+> >=20
+> > In groff_man_style(7) you wrote:
+> >> Unused macro arguments are more often simply omitted, or good style
+> >> suggests that a more appropriate macro be chosen, that earlier
+> >> arguments are more important than later ones, or that arguments
+> >> have identical significance such that skipping any is superfluous.
+> >=20
+> > After 15 minutes of gawking at this sentence, I still don't
+> > understand what are you trying to say here. The sentence should be
+> > either thoroughly rephrased or removed.
+>=20
+> I must say that I too found it hard to parse. I presume, Branden,
+> that you mean:
+>=20
+> [[
+> Unused macro arguments are more often simply omitted, or good style=20
+> suggests
+> EITHER (1)=20
+> that a more appropriate macro be chosen,=20
+> (2)
+> that earlier arguments are more important than later ones, or
+> (3)
+> that arguments have=20
+> identical significance such that skipping any is superfluous.
+> ]]
+
+You got it. But it was too much work.
+
+> But it takes a few scans to work that out. Perhaps break this into
+> smaller pieces, or add some explicit structuring elements to the
+> sentence?
+
+I was trying to be comprehensive with respect to several anti-patterns I
+had in mind. However, using the anti-patterns concretely is premature
+at that point in the page. So I both expanded and relocated the
+material.
+
+I'm attaching what I've just committed to groff git.
+
+Further feedback is welcome, of course; revision of documentation is a
+process that is never completed, only abandoned. And I haven't given up
+yet. :)
+
+Thank you both for your reviews.
+
+Regards,
+Branden
+
+--wl6i3r6gpq7ibouc
+Content-Type: text/x-diff; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="excise_standardese.diff"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+commit dd2c4cf05a659ae7127e342924668ff0fa0deaa1
+Author: G. Branden Robinson <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com>
+Date: Wed Sep 30 19:56:38 2020 +1000
+
+ groff_man_style(7): Clarify empty macro arguments.
+ =20
+ Rewrite some ersatz standardese I had managed to concoct regarding why
+ empty macro arguments are usually not needed. Put an expanded
+ discussion, with anti-patterns and remedies, in section "Notes", with
+ forward reference from subsection "Macro reference preliminaries".
+ =20
+ Thanks to Jakub Wilk and Michael Kerrisk for the critique.
+
+diff --git a/tmac/groff_man.7.man.in b/tmac/groff_man.7.man.in
+index c62d97ba..b96cbaf4 100644
+--- a/tmac/groff_man.7.man.in
++++ b/tmac/groff_man.7.man.in
+@@ -281,23 +281,8 @@ but the
+ package is designed such that this should seldom be necessary.
+ _ifstyle()dnl
+ .
+-Unused macro arguments are more often simply omitted,
+-.\" antipattern: '.TP ""' (just '.TP' will do)
+-or good style suggests that a more appropriate macro be chosen,
+-.\" antipattern: '.BI "" italic bold' (use '.IB' instead)
+-that earlier arguments are more important than later ones,
+-.\" antipattern: '.TH foo 1 "" "foo "1.2.3"' (don't skip the date!)
+-.\" antipattern: '.IP "" 4n' (use .TP or .RS/.RE, depending on needs)
+-or that arguments have identical significance such that skipping any is
+-superfluous.
+-.\" antipattern: '.B one two "" three' (pointless)
+-.\" Technically, the above has a side-effect of additional space
+-.\" between "two" and "three", but there are much more obvious ways of
+-.\" getting it if desired.
+-.\" .B "one two three"
+-.\" .B one "two " three
+-.\" .B one two " three"
+-.\" .B one two\~ three
++See section \(lqNotes\(rq below for examples of cases where better
++alternatives to empty arguments in macro calls are available.
+ _endif()dnl
+ .
+ Most macro arguments are strings that will be output as text;
+@@ -3235,6 +3220,63 @@ Some tips on troubleshooting your man pages follow.
+ .
+ .
+ .TP
++\(bu Do I ever need to use an empty macro argument ("")?
++Probably not.
++.
++When this seems necessary,
++often a shorter or clearer alternative is available.
++.
++.\" antipattern: '.TP ""' (just '.TP' will do)
++.\" antipattern: '.BI "" italic bold' (use '.IB' instead)
++.\" antipattern: '.TH foo 1 "" "foo 1.2.3"' (don't skip the date!)
++.\" antipattern: '.IP "" 4n' (use .TP or .RS/.RE, depending on needs)
++.\" antipattern: '.B one two "" three' (pointless)
++.\" Technically, the above has a side-effect of additional space
++.\" between "two" and "three", but there are much more obvious ways of
++.\" getting it if desired.
++.\" .B "one two three"
++.\" .B one "two " three
++.\" .B one two " three"
++.\" .B one two\~ three
++.TS
++c c
++lfCB lfCB.
++Instead of.\|.\. .\|.\|.do this.
++_
++\&.TP \(dq\(dq .TP
++\&.BI \(dq\(dq italic-text bold-text .IB italic-text bold-text
++\&.TH foo 1 \(dq\(dq \(dqfoo 1.2.3\(dq .TH foo 1 \
++\f(CIyyyy\fP-\f(CImm\fP-\f(CIdd\fP \(dqfoo 1.2.3\(dq
++\&.IP \(dq\(dq 4n .TP 4n
++\&.B one two \(dq\(dq three .B one two three
++.TE
++.
++.
++.IP
++In the title heading
++.RB ( .TH ),
++the date of the page's last revision is more important than packaging
++information;
++it should not be omitted.
++.
++Ideally,
++a page maintainer will keep both up to date.
++.
++.
++.IP
++In the last example,
++the empty argument does have a subtly different effect than its
++suggested replacement;
++the empty argument becomes an additional space character\(embut it is a
++regular breaking space,
++so it can be discarded at the end of an output line.
++.
++It is better not to be subtle,
++particularly with space,
++which can be overlooked in source and rendered forms.
++.
++.
++.TP
+ .RB \(bu " .RS" " doesn't indent relative to my indented paragraph"
+ The
+ .B .RS
+
+--wl6i3r6gpq7ibouc--
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